Satan accuses humans for God, but by faith in Christ we shall win.

“Closer To truth” posted a video with a short interview with Roger Penrose and congratulated him with the Nobel Prize in physics 2020.

I took part in the discussion and posted my comments in a blog. This was both about physics and the methods in science and about Christianity, faith in God and moral philosophy.

After quite a while there came more discussion about Christianity, faith in God and moral. An atheist’s argumentation was a lot of accusations against humans, christians and especially me. I answered as best as I could and came with some more general comments also. I´ll quote my comments here.

The methods in Christianity and in real sciences.

When we search God on the basement of the gospel, we use the method of the gospel. When we study real science we use the methods of real sciences. When we start with the methods of the gospel, we can add real sciences with it’s methods, we must just acknowledge our limitations as humans and the limitations that lies in the methods. Much of what we learn both of Christianity and science, we can use in our daily life, but it is not restricted by using scientific methods, my thinking, talking and writing is not restricted and limited like that. Because I live in the freedom God gives me in the gospel of Christ, he is the truth that sets us free. 

Who witnessed and who wrote the gospels?

There was one who wrote that Jesus did not write the gospels, Paul wrote the letter to the Romans, but was not witness of what Christ had done. What was the point? I just answered my way.

 Jesus disciples witnessed about him, by telling what he had told them. He gave them the Holy Spirit so that it should remind them of what he had said and witness together with them. The belief coms from the preaching (the written gospels) and the preaching comes for Jesus’ words (Rom.10,17). On the foundation of the gospel we get the Holy Spirit by fait in Christ, of mere grace, then this still functions.

Isaiah.8,12 “Do not call conspiracy everything this people calls a conspiracy; do not fear what they fear, and do not dread it. 13 The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread. 14 He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare. 15 Many of them will stumble; they will fall and be broken, they will be snared and captured.” 16 Bind up this testimony of warning and seal up God’s instruction among my disciples. 17 I will wait for the LORD, who is hiding his face from the descendants of Jacob. I will put my trust in him. 18 Here am I, and the children the LORD has given me. We are signs and symbols in Israel from the LORD Almighty, who dwells on Mount Zion. 

After Jesus was taken up to heaven the disciples chose an apostle instead of Judas. This was before they were baptized by the Holy Spirit, Acts.1,15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, “Brothers and sisters, the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.” 18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms: “ ‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’and, “ ‘May another take his place of leadership.’ 21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.” 23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. But Jesus chose Paul instead, in a wonderful revelation (Acts.9). 

Judas was witness like the other disciples, still he did not believe and betrayed Jesus. There were others who were witnesses in the same way as the disciples, even though they didn’t follow  him so close. Paul pursued them, but Jesus revealed himself from heaven and chose him to become his disciple, instead of Judas. He gave him life and Spirit from heaven, so he got a new life and by the Holy Spirit Jesus equipped him to serve him, to serve God in a new way. As an example for anyone who later came to believe in him. 

 It must have been shocking for Paul to realize that he as an eager Pharisee had been so wrong. In the letter to the Romans he explains it well. I concluded that he had been sold (Rom.7,14). So Jesus chose one who had been sold instead of one that sold and freed him out of the slavery. Later he defended his service as apostle, very much against people who would like to teach, being more interested in earning money from it than to preach the true gospel. He prophesied that after his service was over, those interest would become stronger (Acts.20,21…). Now we know it as history and we still face it in the society. What to do about it is to get equipped like Paul and preach the true gospel. 

Discussion with an atheist.

Inside quotation marks I refer just a little to what he wrote.

God  loved  the  world  so  much  that  he sent his  only  Son, so  that  everyone  that  believes  in him  shall  not  perish,  but  have  eternal  life  (Joh.3,16). 

As a reaction against the democracy in Athens, the poet and soldier Aischylos  suggested that  Zeus  should be good over all goods and rule with a universal morality, so dictatorial, that everything that happened was his work. This contradicts that the Greek gods rose from chaos and became the Greek answer to Israel’s God. During Antiochus 4. Epiphanes this resulted in I terrible dictatorship in the  Greek-Syrian  kingdom, but the Hebrews fought for their lives and their God, to free themselves. 

For the Bible’s God is not like that. God’s people should first of all believe in him, then they should cultivate the earth to make it fertile to themselves. This is what the Law of Moses also told them, in addition it told them what they should not do. And there was punishment for doing wrong. If they didn’t believe, how could then the law determine what should happen? Only if someone did wrong and was accused of it. Bay lac of belief they didn’t see their ability to do good and right, because the needed accusations so that they could rule by the law. 

The seven “light-days” in the creation history in Genesis1 goes like this: God said what should happen and it happened, that’s how it was created. So he determined it. Then he looked after it and saw that it was good. Why? When it was left to itself, it seems like there was uncertainty in how it would develop, even to God, and now we know that randomness in quantum mechanics is so fundamental that it is not strange that God will watch over what he has created.  

The quantum-mechanical randomness is surely fundamental to life to exist. Our thinking is not determinism, but to be free to make suggestions and deduce logically from the suggestions.  

Job’s book is one of the oldest books in the Bible and here  this problem is discussed, said in modern expressions it tells us about the struggle of life, it is not a posteriori obvious that humans should be the winner and rule over all other creatures. But God is good, perfect and almighty, he  does no mistake. And we need to turn to him and let him put us in that position and keep us there. 

God created humans in his image, as men and women. He told Adam not to eat of the tree that gave knowledge of good and bad, if he did, he should die. The serpent said to Eve, that if they did, they should become like God and know good and bad. So he gave her the impression that that choice was better to them than what God had given them. So in this way they tried to become something else but what God had created them to be and get something better than he had given them, but they were cheated and were punished. That turned out to be eval to them, but it was their stupid choice.  

This stupidity we often find in moral philosophy, they are not able to understand and that problem I face in your writing. They are seduced and so is the world. But I don’t search that kind of knowledge or understanding. I am interested in real sciences at the same time as I search society with God on the basement of the gospel of Christ, to let him do his work with me. God loved the world so much that he sent his only Son, so that everyone who believe in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. The temptation is surely still there, the serpent still tries to tell humans that his alternative is better. Humans were condemned to death because the fall of sin, but Jesus died instead of us. God has showed his love to us this way. Jesus lives and he gives us spirit and life from heaven, it’s just to receive in faith. God is Spirit and I have received his spirit by faith in Christ. That’s how I experience that God is good, he is good to me, he is love, he loves me in Christ. I received Christ as my savior and Lord and that makes me glad. He gives me a glorious and wonderful rest in my heart and my mind, it is the rest of the seventh “light-day”. 

On the sixth “light-day” he created the animals on the dry land and saw it was good. Then he created humankind in his image, to rule over the other creatures and he blessed them to do so. The seventh “light-day” he rested and blessed it. 

The comes the creation history of Adam and Eve. He told Adam not to eat of the tree that gave knowledge of good and bad and warned him to punish him to death if he did.  

«Either ALL the scripts must be accepted as read or NONE of them may be.» 

We use to say that the Bible is God’s word. But how to understand it? But in the Bible it is also told what many others said, angels from God, yes,  but it is also told what the Devil said. And it is told what the humans said, both those who were with god and those who were against him. What his people said and did and what their neighbouring people said and did. It is told about a lot of wars, even as prophesies, in that way God wanted to make it clear that he did it all. It seems hard to understand that God is good, as he does like this. But his is consistant with the evolution theory, God creates through evolution. He is good and has a better way of doing it, but it depends on us, if we will choose to go that way. 

God’s plan with his people was that they should be his children. But Jesus’ blood talks better than Abel’s blood. So apostle John talked about the old eval nature like Cain. But everyone who received Jesus he gave right to become children of God, borne by his Spirit and what is borne by the Spirit, is spirit. This Spirit Jesus gives us from heaven, so we can say we become borne from heaven.  

Then it is unreasonable to ask for evidence, as if we got it by turning to something on earth or by doing something on earth to get it, because that is not Christianity. 

 “Created an Eve unable to resist temptation”.

God created humans in his image, as men and women. He told Adam not to eat of the tree that gave knowledge of good and bad, if he did, he should die. The serpent said to Eve, that if they did, they should become like God and know good and bad. So he gave her the impression that that choice was better to them than what God had given them. So in this way they tried to become something else but what God had created them to be and get something better than he had given them, but they were cheated and were punished. That turned out to be eval to them, but it was their stupid choice. This stupidity we often find in moral philosophy, they are not able to understand and that problem I face in your writing. They are seduced and so is the world. But I don’t search that kind of knowledge or understanding. I am interested in real sciences at the same time as I search society with God on the basement of the gospel of Christ, to let him do his work with me. God loved the world so much that he sent his only Son, so that everyone who believe in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. The temptation is surely still there, the serpent still tries to tell humans that his alternative is better. Humans were condemned to death because the fall of sin, but Jesus died instead of us. God has showed his love to us this way. Jesus lives and he gives us spirit and life from heaven, it’s just to receive in faith. God is Spirit and I have received his spirit by faith in Christ. That’s how I experience that God is good, he is good to me, he is love, he loves me in Christ. I received Christ as my savior and Lord and that makes me glad. He gives me a glorious and wonderful rest in my heart and my mind, it is the rest of the seventh “light-day”. 

 «Either ALL the scripts must be accepted as read or NONE of them may be.» 

We use to say that the Bible is God’s word. But how to understand it? But in the Bible it is also told what many others said, angels from God, yes, but it is also told what the Devil said. And it is told what the humans said, both those who were with god and those who were against him. What his people said and did and what their neighbouring people said and did. It is told about a lot of wars, even as prophesies, in that way God wanted to make it clear that he did it all. It seems hard to understand that God is good, as he does like this. But his is consistant with the evolution theory, God creates through evolution. He is good and has a better way of doing it, but it depends on us, if we will choose to go that way. 

 “Then you can’t avoid the ‘reality’ that we’re ALL (including that ‘man’ Jesus) the children of Cain” God’s plan with his people was that they should be his children. But Jesus’ blood talks better than Abel’s blood. So apostle John talked about the old eval nature like Cain. But everyone who received Jesus he gave right to become children of God, borne by his Spirit and what is borne by the Spirit, is spirit. This Spirit Jesus gives us from heaven, so we can say we become borne from heaven. Then it is unreasonable to ask for evidence, as if we got it by turning to something on earth or by doing something on earth to get it, because that is not Christianity. 

 “Do you not see how aft is the proposition that the god of all the universes to “let him” do ANYthing?”

 No, you certainly think of God as a dictator. Adam and Eve lived in society with him and experienced that he did his work in their lives. But after the fall of sin they hided from him in fear and then he locked them out, so they didn’t get more of such experience with him. Israel was God’s people and God did his work with them, they were supposed to understand that, but he also did his work with the other peoples, even though they were not aware of it. When God’s people turned away from him, he punished them, like he punished other peoples, but anyway he continued to do his work with them. His plan with his people was that they should be his wife, so that their children should be his children. But this they did not understand. But in the new covenant this should be quite clear. Everyone who received Jesus, he gave right to become children of God. His Church is his bride. So it is a lovely relationship based on freedom. Our heavenly Father loves us and cares for us as his children and he wants to understand it and receive it. Jesus loves his bride and cares for her and he wants her to receive it and answer him with love. God is love and it is his work. So it is just for us to believe in him, trust him, receive Christ and let him do his work in our lives. Such a lovely relationship functions this way, when we receive in this way we experience his salvation as God’s power in our lives and that’s glorious and wonderful, far better than anything the world can give us. 

«He NEVER told Eve.» 

She answered the serpent quite correctly, how did she know? That is not told, but it is likely that Adam told her what God had  said to him. Then the serpent lied to her, giving her the impression that he had a better alternative to them. And that’s how she was seduced. 

“ Light-days are just another recent cop-out. There was no such thing back before man (and an atheist at that!!) created it.” 

You talk about what man created, first of such days, first of all? As if he is god? I really don’t understand what is your fantastic point about this. When I write “light-days”, I just put it my way, just to distinguish from earth days. the point is that God said there should be light and then there was light. The light he called day and the dark he called night. The fourth “light-day” he put the lights on the sky, so it should be quite clear that earth-days is not the same as these “light-days”.  

I find it very strange that many people still don’t acknowledge this. I think it is because you read the Bible in the interest moral philosophers have to make themselves like god with your “knowledge” and the interest of ancient Greek religion, the belief that the gods jumped out of chaos ….. Then you get a lot of problems and ask a lot of questions. But your problems are simply that you are not capable of being gods. That’s why you get all those problems and ask all those stupid questions, but I don’t intend to answer all that stupid questions and solve all your problems of being like God.  

“god created us imperfectly ~something no ‘perfect’ creator would be capable of doing by definition” 

“By definition”? By defining Zevs as god the almighty, but Israel’s God is not like that. By determinism, that is in the nature, classical mechanics, but what about quantum mechanics? God is Spirit, he has created everything and has power over it, like a potter has power over the clay. The clay can’t say to the potter, what are you doing, you don’t know how to do this  (Isaiah 29,16 Jer.18,6). King Salomo said that all God’s work lasts for ever, he repeats his work. Nobody can add anything or take anything from it.  

Ecclesiastes.3, 9 What gain has the worker from his toil?  

10 I have seen the business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with.  

11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.  

12 I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live;  

13 also that everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure in all his toil–this is God’s gift to man.  

14 I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.  

15 That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away. 

What lasts forever then? This God has revealed for us in the salvation he has prepared for us in Christ. God loved the world so much that he sent his only son, so that everyone who believe in him, shall not perish, but have eternal life. 

“Jesus’ claim to fame was that he was HUMAN man, and CANNOT have been that sans a Y-chromosome.” 

Even though he was borne by a virgin (like was prophesied), Joseph’s genealogy is used to show that in the flesh he was a descendant of David. It was a wander by the Holy Spirit. By the Holy Spirit he was God’s almighty Son, as was showed when he rose from the dead.  

Everyone who received him he gave right to become children of God, borne by the Holy Spirit. And what is born by the Spirit is spirit. And God cares for us as his children, by giving us the Holy Spirit from heaven. 

Women has sex-chromosome XX, men has XY, so men and women are genetically uneaqual. Concerning the Y-chromosome, it is dominant over the X-chromosome, giving man primary sex-trait. It also has a dominant effect on other genes, giving man secondary sex properties.  

So post-modern moral- and political philosophy, that men and women shall be equal opposes both Christianity and biology, it is simply a wrong teaching, it turns out enmity against man for beeing a man. So your moral- and political  philosophy is still going strong, showing enmity against humans and life in general? Well, it may fit better to reptiles, as many of them changes sex. But I just don’t want any of those stupid problems! So I am glad to tell you that Jesus is the truth that frees me from it, he died instead of me, to save me from it. So I’ll thank him for it. 

 “I’m getting sick of stating the obvious, so will just briefly point out that the serpent DIDN’T lie to her.” 

So you believe what the serpent said was true, as if he is your god? I have suggested you are a man, but I’m not sure, maybe you are a woman. You are surely a human, but since you believe what the serpent said repeats it, it not strange you get sick out of it, it is not at all strange that you as a human get sick out of saying so much bad things about humans. But the serpent is a lier and I’ll explain it first of all by telling what the Bible says. I’ll bet on that people are able to read, so I’ll just to quote what is written in Genesis 3: 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 14 The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. 15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” 16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” 17 And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; 18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” 20 The man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. 21 And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them. 22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever–” 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. I’m used to norwegian translations and there it is they/their instead of he/his in vers 15. But it just confirms my understanding of it, that Jesus won over Satan in his life on earth, in his death and resurrection. By faith in him we shall win together with him, both individually and as his Church, the Church is his bride and his wife, making it quite clear that this is both for men and for women. It is quite different from what you say. 

Contrary to what is written in the Bible you claim that Eve did not know they were not allowed to eat from the tree that gave knowledge of good and bad and the serpent didn’t lie to her when he said that they should not die if they did. But he said so because Eve knew it and answered correctly. So for sure you lie and so did the serpent. You just find a new lie when you fell you need it, but the lies doesn’t fit together! Since you claim the serpent didn’t lie, I’ll ask you what kind of world you are living in? A world where people don’t die? In this world people die of sickness, in accidents, being murdered, in war an as they become old. Didn’t you just complain about the eval? Well, for certain it shows that what the serpent said was a lie. In the same way you are telling lies! 

«AGAIN YOU MISS THE POINT entirely.» 

My point is that God loved the world so much that he sent his only Son, so that everyone who believe in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Humans were condemned to death because of the fall of sin, but Jesus died instead of us. By believing in him, turning to him and receive him, we experience that he gives us spirit and life from heaven, this is quite new to this world, God makes something new by his Word and his Spirit. 

As you have quite another (opposite) point of view, it is not at all strange that I miss your point entirely, I am just very glad to do so! 

I you in your nearly almighty power want to argue against 1 + 1 = 2, it is not interesting to me and especially not in this context. What I appreciate from ancient Greek philosophy is first of all mathematics and then nature philosophy.  

«Again unsubstantiated assumption» 

As a free man I am free to make my own assumptions and suggestions, what is important to me then, is that it is trust-worthy. That’s an important reason why I choose Christianity and real sciences. It is also concerning my personal life, the promise is that we shall be blessed by faith in Christ, so it should give us a good future and even eternal life in God’s heaven.  

I believe God created everything by his word, so that what is visible is made from what is invisible. That’s why nature is understandable and it gives life meaning. For Jesus is God’s Word and in him is life and that life is the light for humans. He gives us spirit and life from heaven and that how he will experience what God has promised in his word. 

 “I’m getting sick of stating the obvious, so will just briefly point out that the serpent DIDN’T lie to her.” 

So you believe what the serpent said was true, as if he is your god? I have suggested you are a man, but I’m not sure, maybe you are a woman. You are surely a human, but since you believe what the serpent said repeats it, it not strange you get sick out of it, it is not at all strange that you as a human get sick out of saying so much bad things about humans. But the serpent is a lier and I’ll explain it first of all by telling what the Bible says. I’ll bet on that people are able to read, so I’ll just to quote what is written in Genesis 3: 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 14 The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. 15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” 16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” 17 And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; 18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” 20 The man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. 21 And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them. 22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever–” 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. I’m used to norwegian translations and there it is they/their instead of he/his in vers 15. But it just confirms my understanding of it, that Jesus won over Satan in his life on earth, in his death and resurrection. By faith in him we shall win together with him, both individually and as his Church, the Church is his bride and his wife, making it quite clear that this is both for men and for women. It is quite different from what you say. 

Contrary to what is written in the Bible you claim that Eve did not know they were not allowed to eat from the tree that gave knowledge of good and bad and the serpent didn’t lie to her when he said that they should not die if they did. But he said so because Eve knew it and answered correctly. So for sure you lie and so did the serpent. You just find a new lie when you fell you need it, but the lies doesn’t fit together! Since you claim the serpent didn’t lie, I’ll ask you what kind of world you are living in? A world where people don’t die? In this world people die of sickness, in accidents, being murdered, in war an as they become old. Didn’t you just complain about the eval? Well, for certain it shows that what the serpent said was a lie. In the same way you are telling lies! 

 «AGAIN YOU MISS THE POINT entirely.» My point is that God loved the world so much that he sent his only Son, so that everyone who believe in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Humans were condemned to death because of the fall of sin, but Jesus died instead of us. By believing in him, turning to him and receive him, we experience that he gives us spirit and life from heaven, this is quite new to this world, God makes something new by his Word and his Spirit. As you have quite another (opposite) point of view, it is not at all strange that I miss your point entirely, I am just very glad to do so! I you in your nearly almighty power want to argue against 1 + 1 = 2, it is not interesting to me and especially not in this context. What I appreciate from ancient Greek philosophy is first of all mathematics and then nature philosophy. 

«Again unsubstantiated assumption» As a free man I am free to make my own assumptions and suggestions, what is important to me then, is that it is trust-worthy. That’s an important reason why I choose Christianity and real sciences. It is also concerning my personal life, the promise is that we shall be blessed by faith in Christ, so it should give us a good future and even eternal life in God’s heaven. I believe God created everything by his word, so that what is visible is made from what is invisible. That’s why nature is understandable and it gives life meaning. For Jesus is God’s Word and in him is life and that life is the light for humans. He gives us spirit and life from heaven and that how he will experience what God has promised in his word. 

“Again unsubstantiated assumption (sort of like a virginal mammalian mother).”  

God’s people (Israel) was his wife, so that their children should be God’s children. Everyone who received Christ he gave right to become children of God, borne by the Holy Spirit, what is borne by the Spirit is spirit. Christ is the last Adam, that is from heaven and for us has become a life-giving Spirit. Then it is important for us to understand the difference between this and to eat of the tree that gave knowledge of good and bad. 2.Chorintians.11, 2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.  

But to study real sciences is not like eating from that tree. This suits to the important conclusion we can draw from philosophy history, giving the modern science the self-understanding, that it is hypothetic deductive. 

Jesus said God would give us what the body need, like a Father cares for his children and argued that it is quite natural, so search first God’s kingdom and his righteousness and you will get this in addition. Then it seems like God’s kingdom comes in addition to the physical world we experience, like methacognition, so it comes in addition to nature science, like nature philosophy and methaphysics. Then it is important to remember the point that God cares for us as his children and for his creation. Jesus said that we must be borne by the Holy Spirit to see God’s kingdom and to come into it (John.3,5…). He blessed the children and said the kingdom of heaven belong to such ones (Matt.19,13-15), so we must repent and become like them to come into it. Matt.18. 1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3 and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 “Woe to the world for temptations to sin!For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! 8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire. 10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. 12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? 13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.  

So by God’s mercy we get a “reset” and a “restart”, since Jesus died instead of us and rose from the dead, this is very fundamental, so the salvation is like the creation. 

By faith in Christ we get the Holy Spirit of mere grace, without doing anything for it. We become borne by the Spirit and become “socialised” into the kingdom of heaven. This is not a slave-society, but it is childhood. 

Galatians.3, 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?  

6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”  

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.  

8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”  

9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.  

Rom.8, 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.  

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.  

13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.  

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.  

15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”  

16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.  

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. 

When we live in the childhood at our Father’s house we experience that he loves us and cares for us and teaches us as his children, we can come to him with all our needs and he answers us. Jesus is his Word and the Holy Spirit reveals him for us. 

Imagine a man and her wife with their newly borne son. Maybe he cries a little and they understand it as a cry for care and so they do. When it starts talking a little, they talk with it, trying to understand what it says and to teach it to talk. So this is a very good democracy and so is the childhood God gives us. They will not say you talk nonsense, what’s the matter with you? You are only talking nonsense, so you’d better shut up. Imagine there came a python into their house and they started to keep it as a pet, not knowing it could be a danger to their son. But one day they didn’t find him and wondered where he might have gone. The python looked pregnant and they became exited, that was quick, it will be exiting to see if it will give birth to a male or female. Hopefully parents are not that stupid. But in the Middle age the catholic church concluded that Jesus is so strict, that ordinary people can’t talk to him directly, pray to him and ask him for anything, so the pope must be intermediary between him and them. They could pray to him and the priests and the catholic saints, that they should prey for them. But the correct explanation for this is that the serpent seduced the woman and the church, so it was the knowledge of good and eval that they got by eating of the forbidden fruit, that was such a strict moral, as if they could rule like god with it. But it gave them bad consciousness, so that they hided from God. It killed their spiritual life in society with God, who is Spirit, it killed their souls. In this way childhood is replaced by slavery, the indulgence trade was a form of slave-trade. So the point in that the priests should talk and pray for them turned out to be like this, that they got what they wanted instead of them. But the democracy in the childhood at God’s house in not like this. Christ is the intermediary between God and humans, he represents us for our heavenly Father, he prays for us. Priests may serve him, if they don’t, they may try to represent us in a different way, but then this democracy doesn’t function correctly. Then it may get political consequences, that the politicians no longer represent us correctly, it is false, they may pretend to do so, but don’t. So both the Church and the politics are corrupted. The socialization into Churches functions like soul-trap and so do socialization into schools, high-schools, universities and politics. Social life has become a soul-trapping project. Social life die. How does it end? And then they ask if we have a soul? May be they should better ask what kills it and what lets it live? But Christ is the same and his gospel is the same. If anyone is soul-trapped, so that your soul is dying, like a bird in the fowler’s snare, it’s just to turn to him and call upon his name and he will give life to your soul and free you from the snare. 

«Again unsubstantiated assumption» 

I don’t need to “substantiate” (goblegeegook for irony) anything, because God created everything. In fact I can’t “substantiate” anything, because I am not like God. Those who are fooled to try to make themselves like God, get the task to “substantiate”/create, like him. But they are not able to do so. But that traditionally “learnt” upper class loaded those burdens on ordinary people, making them slaves under false gods. Using the strategi like the serpent who seduced Eve.  

But Jesus frees us from such burdens and gives life to our souls, human souls! 

Matt.11, 25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.  

26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.  

27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.  

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.  

29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.  

30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” 

You write: “I said ‘She wasn’t told by god’, and nowhere was it suggested that she WAS. Moreover, scholars of such matters actually doubt she was even told by Adam, on the basis of language of ancient texts, etc.” 

But what is written in the Bible is that her first answer to the serpent was what God had told Adam. Then this is a question of knowing how to read. In the middle age most people did not know how to read and it is very strange that the priests diden’t teach them what was written in the Bible. People realized it and that became a motif of learning how to read. And it is strange that you are talking to us as if we still don’t know how to read.  

Concerning Church history we may very well ask if the priest warned the Church and if the man warned Eve, if he got the chance to do warn, but actually it is more relevant to ask if the priests preached the gospel of Christ and if they let men and women do it. For on the foundation of the gospel of Christ we may come into such a relationship to God as humans were in before the fall of sin, but now Christ is the last Adam, who is from heaven and for us has become a lifegiving Spirit (1Corinth.15,45). 

«Again unsubstantiated assumption» In nature science (modern science) we don’t “substantiate” (gobbledeegook for irony), we just investigate the substance that already is there. You make a lot of assumption about me and many other people that we are stupid, bad, eval and then you even want to “substantiate” it? So here we must be on guard, surely I don’t want to “substantiate” your assumptions! But I wander if you can tell something about yourself, who are you and where (in the hell?) do you come from. Notice: I don’t ask you to “substantiate” your crazy ideas about yourself, but to realize who you really are and to tell it. 

Apostle John said that Jesus is God’s Word, it became flesh and lived among us (John.1,1…), he talked about it as what they saw with their eyes and touched with their hands.  

1. 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.  

2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.  

3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.  

4 We write this to make our joy complete. 

Jesus said he was the bread that came down from heaven to give the world life, so it is just for us to believe in him and receive him, it is the Spirit that makes alive, the word he has spoken to us is spirit and life (Joh.6,28….).  

He introduced the communion, the point was that they should remember him. Yes, to believe in him is to remember him. 

Luk.22, 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.  

16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”  

17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you.  

18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”  

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”  

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 

None of us met him when he walked on earth, how can we remember him? He said he would send us the Holy Spirit and it will remind us of his word and reveal it for us, he gives us spirit and life and in this way we get to know him and in this way we shall remember him.  

Joh.14, 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”  

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.  

God reveals his salvation for us in Christ, it is symbolized in baptism, it is a pledge of clear conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Christ. 

1.Pet.3, 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.  

19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—  

20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,  

21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,  

22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. 

“eg 1+1 need NOT= 2 when the gods start tampering.” 

Mathematics is fundamental in our civilization, so this is a matter of becoming civilized and become able to acknowledge truth and say it. Then it’s hard for you to accept and remember that 1 + 1 = 2? But do you remember your own name? I’ve heard about tabula rasa and some programmable substances, but if you are able to tell your own name, then maybe you will become able to talk like a human being, a human soul. 

Apostle John said that Jesus is God’s Word, it became flesh and lived among us (John.1,1…), he talked about it as what they saw with their eyes and touched with their hands.

1.John.1, 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.

Jesus said he was the bread that came down from heaven to give the world life, so it is just for us to believe in him and receive him, it is the Spirit that makes alive, the word he has spoken to us is spirit and life (Joh.6,28….). He introduced the communion, the point was that they should remember him. Yes, to believe in him is to remember him.

Luk.22, 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. None of us met him when he walked on earth, how can we remember him? He said he would send us the Holy Spirit and it will remind us of his word and reveal it for us, he gives us spirit and life and in this way we get to know him and in this way we shall remember him. Joh.14, 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” 23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. God reveals his salvation for us in Christ, it is symbolized in baptism, it is a pledge of clear conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Christ. 1.Pet.3, 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. 

Daniel prophesied about 4 great kingdoms, the fourth is the Greek empire under Alexander the Great. Then he prophesied about the Greek-Syrian, there an eval king took the power.  

Daniel.11, 21 “He will be succeeded by a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty. He will invade the kingdom when its people feel secure, and he will seize it through intrigue.  

22 Then an overwhelming army will be swept away before him; both it and a prince of the covenant will be destroyed.  

This is surely a prophesy of the history we can reads about in 1.Maccabee. Antiochus 4. Epiphanes demanded that everyone in his kingdom should worship Zevs and no other god. So the high priest in Jerusalem he replaced by a priest for Zevs. The Maccabees led Israel in war against it and freed them from it.  

Zechariah prophesied about the stupid shepherd, “shepherd” can be used both for a king and a priest, in this case I understand it as the Zevs-priest that replaced the high priest.  

Zechariah.11, 4 This is what the LORD my God says: “Shepherd the flock marked for slaughter.  

5 Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, ‘Praise the LORD, I am rich!’ Their own shepherds do not spare them.  

6 For I will no longer have pity on the people of the land,” declares the LORD. “I will give everyone into the hands of their neighbors and their king. They will devastate the land, and I will not rescue anyone from their hands.”  

But this problem stretches over a much longer time. It is also used about used about Judas who sold Jesus for 30 silver coins and thereby about the high priest at that time, who made the appointment with him. 

Then it is told about a new time with such a stupid shepherd: 

Zechariah.11, 15 Then the LORD said to me, “Take again the equipment of a foolish shepherd.  

16 For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hooves.  

17 “Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded!” 

This prophesy was fulfilled by the pope and the Catholic Church in the Middle Age. They did not preach what the Bible told, so that the people could get the message and understand it. Why? Surely because they did not understand it, they were fooled and became foolish shepherds. 

The accusations that common people are eval and foolish is used as argument for dictatorship, taking it for granted that the rulers are wiser and not so stupid and shall make them better and wiser. But in practice it functions like they using their power to make them stupid an eval, so that they can get power over them with their eval and stupidity. And so it functioned also when that dictatorship came into the Church. 

Aristoteles was the teacher of Alexander the Great and on the 12th century AC a synthesis between Christianity and Aristotelianism became the philosophy of the Catholic Church. It was this that came in conflict with the emerging modern nature-science. Aristoteles is called the father of logics, but he did the mistake that he used the logic on visible things instead of invisible ideas. This mistake is continued in the philosophical direction Kant, Hegel, Marx …… Rationality is understanding, but this is lack of understanding, the logic here is misunderstanding.  

«Again unsubstantiated assumption» 

How stupid is it possible to be and still claiming to be priest and/or dictator? You claim that the serpent did not lie to Eve, when he said to her that they should not die, but become like god to know good and eval. Contrary to what else is said in Genesis3.  

But how did this work out later? They made idols of sticks and stone that resembled humans and animals and worshipped them as gods. The bible calls these gods Lie. They are taught by worthless wooden idols and become senseless and stupid.  They believed the sun, stars and planets were gods, but God’s prophets said they were not, those gods that did not create heaven and earth are not gods (Jeremiah.10,8.11&14). 

Jeremiah.10, 1 Hear what the LORD says to you, people of Israel.  

2 This is what the LORD says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the heavens, though the nations are terrified by them.  

3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.  

4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.  

5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.”  

6 No one is like you, LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power.  

7 Who should not fear you, King of the nations? This is your due. Among all the wise leaders of the nations and in all their kingdoms, there is no one like you.  

8 They are all senseless and foolish; they are taught by worthless wooden idols.  

9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz. What the craftsman and goldsmith have made is then dressed in blue and purple— all made by skilled workers.  

10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.  

11 “Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’ ”  

12 But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.  

13 When he thunders, the waters in the heavens roar; he makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth. He sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses.  

14 Everyone is senseless and without knowledge; every goldsmith is shamed by his idols. The images he makes are a fraud; they have no breath in them.  

15 They are worthless, the objects of mockery; when their judgment comes, they will perish.  

16 He who is the Portion of Jacob is not like these, for he is the Maker of all things, including Israel, the people of his inheritance— the LORD Almighty is his name. 

By faith in Christ Israel’s God has become my God. Then you claim that me and others who has this fait must “substantiate” it, in addition we must “substantiate” any of our assumptions and suggestions. This is just to claim that we shall “substantiate” it by making idols of sticks and stone. The point is to reduce our cognitive activity top a minimum, so that you might possibly rule like a priest and/or dictator with your stupidity. The “substantiation” means death to the human soul and reduction of the cognitive activity to kind of minimum. Then the biological death comes nearer. That is not so strange because the idols of sticks and stone are stupid as wood and stone dead. 

In fact, both God and humans are replaced by such idols. The point is not to listen to God’s Word and then not to listen to the human as a living soul, what it thinks and want to say. But to replace it by the imagination of somebody with an eval will. So this is the intention with the serpents temptation. 

But this is not how modern, nature science is. We may use all our cognitive activity in trying to understand and the understanding, the rationality, is still invisible. We use our rationality to construct an experiment and try to find a good idea that describes the process, it may be a mathematical formula. It is a hypothesis. The experiment is repeatable and in this way we substantiate the hypothesis that we found. By such experiment it may become a scientific theory.  

What is repeated? It is the rationality, including the hypothesis that we found and it is still invisible.  

For pedagogic purposes we may visualise it, for example by making a model of the DNA-molecule, but the point is not to make idols. 

“ps. ‘Democracy’ is based on the assumption (!) that three morons are smarter than one genius.” 

As a theologian you have totally failed. So you are not able to “substantiate” your thoughts by telling who you really are. It seems like you are so intoxicated or poisoned that you don’t know what you are talking about. At least I can “substantiate” my thoughts by telling a little about who I am. I am a man that has grown up on a little farm by the west coast of Norway. By experience I have learnt to work, both on the farm, the fjord and the mountain and later as fisherman on trawlers. And I have studied real sciences. On one trawler I was elected to represent the crew to the company and through the labourers union. On one factory trawler I was the trawl boss for 5 years, leading one of the teams working on the trawl deck.  

And you imagine you shall teach me how to learn by experience and by use of the methods of modern science?! You must be funny?! But I know that when you and persons like you want to rule as dictators, it is not funny. It makes life and work hard just because you want to rule in your foolishness.  

What about the Marxist alienation; the workers understand little of the production process, so that the production tools and production products become idols to them? Again; humans most fundamental problem is that they don’t know God. But the gospel of Christ solves that problem. 

Jeremiah.31, 34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”  

John.17, 1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.  

2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.  

3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.  

4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.  

5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. 

You write: “You betray your grasp of language and/or your knowledge of reality yet again:- ..”evidence, serves as proof in a trial, at court”.» 

My point was to distinguish between proof (as in mathematics) and evidence, honestly it seems like you got the point. Congratulations! 

I found this definition of evidence: 

“the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.»  

(https://www.google.com/search?q=evidence+meaning&rlz=1C5CHFA_en__860__861&oq=evidence&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l9.7150j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8). 

And this is how I have understood it.  

The indictment in court is a proposition the police have evidence for, then the question is if they have enough evidence to get the accused person convicted in court. That’s the point. 

And I found this definition of proof: 

“evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth. 

anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?” 

(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/proof

Then there is nothing wrong in what I wrote!! Then it is the word “proof” that has different meaning in different contexts. It has one meaning in mathematics and one in nature science else, because according to Karl Popper a scientific theory can’t be proven by evidence, but maybe it will be proven to be wrong by evidence. 

For sure fantasy about idols does not serve as proof in court, as long as it is not corrupted, rather there is need of some relevant evidence to get somebody convicted. 

Originally humans lived in society with God, he created them and thereby they were socialized into his kingdom, He is spirit and it is a spiritual reality. They were also integrated into the nature environment. Genesis 2 talks about both, so there is a duality between God, who is Spirit and the dust he has created. God created man form soil and breathed the spirit of life into his nostrils, so that he became a living soul. This is psychology then. 

In Genesis 3 it is said that the serpent talked to the woman, but everyone knows that a serpent can’t talk. I understand it this way, that humans have animal characteristics, every single one and it shows in the society. The evolution theory gives an explanation for it, that to a certain extent is correct.  

After the fall of sin, God said to the serpent that he should crawl on his belly. The only reptiles that didn’t was the Saurischian Dinosaurs and they were eradicated. It refers to this then. Mammals and dinosaurs have a common ancestor, but reptile traits are far from the typical human trait then.  

This interpretation of the creation story suits well to Job’s book.  

Job.1, 6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.  

7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”  

8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”  

9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.  

10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.  

11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”  

12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.  

Job did not know anything about this, suddenly he experiences a disaster, he was ruined and became sick. He and his friends wodered how this could happen to a righteous man. And last God came and asked Job where he was when created. As the last of God’s creatures humans did not experience it. 

Job.38, 1 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:  

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge?  

3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.  

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.  

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?  

6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone—  

7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?  

In Genesis 2 it seems to come in the opposite order, Adam first, then the garden with it’s life, then Eve, so she had not by far experiences so much of this and she was seduced by the serpent.  

Mathematics and science is fundamental for our civilization. I’ll compare it with the discussion in Job’s book. He was a rich and righteous man living in a civilized society. But he was ruined by criminals and by nature disaster and became very sick. His tree friends argued that this should not happen to a righteous man. But here we must understand the difference between what is likely in a civilized society and what might happen in nature, in wild life, when animals and humans have decided to do something. The discussion is both moral philosophy and nature philosophy. Job defended himself well in the discussion, but then there was a third younger man who said he accused God as if he was better or more righteous than him. Job admitted that he was right in that. Then God answered Job and that is the interesting conclusion, he tells about the natural struggle for life and the fight for survival, but he is perfect and he is the strongest after all. 

We can compare this with what happened to Jesus, it showed that the civilized society was not so civilized and righteous as it should be, after all. But God is perfect and righteous and rose Jesus from the dead and showed that Jesus by the glorious Spirit is his mighty Son. He is also perfect and the spirit and life he gives us from heaven is perfect, he gives life to our souls and it is eternal. 

We use our intelligence to try to understand something, a subject or an object or what you will call it, and to learn from it. Then we use our language to talk about it and in this way it develops. Our intelligence shows in our ability to do so. In this way we contribute and learn from each others, this may be a point in itself as long as we find it valuable. The point may also be to construct something valuable with our work.  

This is first of all about mathematics and physics, then it is not strange that we think more philosophically also. In this conversation I have contributed, you have not, your argumentation is ad hominem, in this way it lack content and it is strange that somebody can talk or write so much, without any sensible or meaning, you write a lot, but it lacks content. So I find this conversation meaningless.  

The simplest explanation for this is that my God exists and he gives me meaning in life. You lack him. 

It reminds me of a jukebox, I put in a coin, “pling in the box”, then comes a nice melody, a song about love, that’s what people like to hear, it gives a good meaning in life, so that’s what most people like to hear. But in this case comes ad hominem, as if the jukebox is programmed for it, by who knows who? Any human would naturally understand that this is not what you like to hear and wouldn’t pay for it. But the payment has another meaning for those who gets the money, the point is to use the language to earn money for it. So that’s why they are afraid that ordinary people use the language to communicate. They can use the language quite a lot, even though the meaningful content is missing, as long as they earn money and get power. Then the “pling in the box” gets another meaning, it’s empty, it lacks meaning.  

But for ordinary people the point still is the content and the meaning in the conversation. 

You claim to be intelligent, so I wonder if you are able to write down one sentence with a meaningful content? 

My answer to a third person:

After having left your shit in the toilet, if you need any help to get your pants on, you better ask your mother. 

You talk about your own god, not mine. “Ooops after ooops” – diden’t I hit the serpents head?? 

When an animal is borne and starts to breathe, it gets enough oxygen to the brain, that it becomes conscious. That’s how it is for humans also, in this way the respiratory system and the circulation system is fundamental to the central nerve system. The central part of our brain regulates the respiratory system and the circulation system, without us being conscious of it, so it is mutual then. But our conscious is in the cerebrum.  

This is used symbolically in Genesis2, where it is said that God created the man from soil and breathed the spirit of life into his nostrils, so that he became a living soul. God is Spirit and in this way he woke up Adam to live in society with him, Adam became conscious of it and experienced that God did his work in his life. 

Comments to the video.

The Bible tells us search him with all our heart, love him with all our heart and believe in him with all our heart and to know him by heart, it is fundamental to our thinking like the circulation system is fundamental to our brain activity. Apostle John said that God is love and he showed us his love when he let his only Son die instead of us. He loved us first, that’s why we love. 

1.John.4, 7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.  

8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.  

9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.  

10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.  

11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.  

12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.  

13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit.  

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.  

15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.  

16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.  

17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.  

18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.  

19 We love because he first loved us.  

It is just to trust in God like a small child that trusts its parents. It is in principle that easy and that means also that it is fundamental. Many conclude that it is stupid, meaning that it is wrong, but that is a mistake. I’ll compare it with the axioms in mathematical analysis, like the existence of 0 and 1. It is easy to understand, but that does not mean that it is stupid and wrong. Instead we return to it and use it. Similarly we need to return to the spring of living water and drink of it. 

Humans are the most advanced mammals with most care for their children. The most special and typical human trait is the symbolic thinking in the language and in mathematics. And that’s why we need God’s Word in the Bible, there is a lot of symbolic speech. It tells that God’s people (Israel) was his wife, so that their children should be God’s children (Ezekiel 23, Hosea.2). God created humans in his image, so by faith in him our understanding of the typical human trait becomes fundamental. Everyone who received Christ he gave right to become children of God, borne by his Spirit and what is borne by the Spirit is spirit. Then this is for gentiles also. Christ’s Church is his bride and his wife, by the love of God, it is created by him and borne by him.  

By faith in Christ I got the Holy Spirit, so this lovely relationship between Christ and his wife is borne in me by the Holy Spirit. It is just by receiving in faith, in this way I can say that to me it concerns the lovely relationship between men and women in general. It is especially important for a man when he wants to get a wife and for a woman when she wants to get a husband.  

That’s also one reason why we need to turn to Christ. By his cross we get the genuine love, the love of God. 

The first Greek nature philosophers got the idea that nature was understandable and they talked about God in a philosophical way, like Israel’s God, the idea surely came from Israel. For God’s plan with them was to make his name known. By trusting we understand that God created everything with his Word, so that what is visible was made from what is invisible. That’s why nature is understandable. We created us in his image, that’s why we are able to understand. By this understanding we have got real sciences. It also gives us an understanding of how is life or how should it better be, so that we may find meaning in life. 

The seven “light-days” in the creation history are long periods of time, many days measured in “earth-days”. The first six “light-days” goes like this, God said something, it happened and then he saw it was good. So it seems like there might be uncertainty in how it would turn out to be, but he looked after it to assure it was good before he created something new the next day, until he rested the seventh day. This fits well to the quantum mechanical probability and uncertainty principle, it seems to be as fundamental that so it is to God also, still he has full control.  

He left the creation just to watch it. In a similar way we can watch it and learn to understand how it functions and so we do in real sciences. Darwin studied finches on Galapagos islands and found something fundamental about nature, the evolution theory. The Austrian monk Johan Gregor Mendel had learnt mathematics and used it to study pea flower systematically and found that the genetic crossing was according to purely mathematical probability. He is regarded as the founder of modern genetics (1866) even though this was long the genetic material, DNA, was found (Watson and Crick, Nobel-price 1962).    

Then it seems like evolution has no meaningful goal. But what about sexual selection? In many animal species the male-animals fight to find out who is the strongest and gets the right to mate with the female-animals. But for most of the birds the competition is first of all by male birds singing and showing the colours in his plumage. The male paradise birds also danse and hoards to attract the females. In this way they develop their typical traits, even though it does not seem to be of any practical advantage.  

But the humans most typical trait, the symbolic thinking by use of the language and mathematics is in the cerebellum and is not visible outside. We develop it by using it, by thinking and talking, so this is important for a man when he wants to find a wife and for a woman when she wats to find a husband. If we just let it function like that, it is likely that this trait will develop to become better over many generations, quite naturally we develop our most typical human trait. 

Jesus is God’s Word, in him is life and it is the light for humans, so by faith in him we get enlightenment. 

John.1, 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  

2 He was in the beginning with God.  

3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.  

4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.  

John.3, 3 Jesus answered him, ”Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”  

4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”  

5 Jesus answered, ”Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.  

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.  

7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’  

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”  

John.3, 16 ”For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.  

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.  

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.  

19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.  

This life is eternal and comes in addition to the body made of soil, with its biological life, that is not eternal. Jesus gives us Spirit and life, he saves our souls for eternity and gives it eternal life and he gives Spirit, so that our body becomes a temple for the Holy Spirit.  

The priests in the Church speaks warmly about Jesus blessing the children, let the children come to him, because the kingdom of heaven belong to such. We must repent and become like them to come into it. Then they make an appointment with parents that their child shall be taught in the Christian faith and then he baptize the child to the Fader, Son and Holy Spirit. In this way he puts himself in the position of teaching what is and should be most fundamental in life. In this way he comes in a sovereign position toward the child and continues in that way as it grows. Is that OK? Well, the Christian faith comes from the preaching and the preaching comes from the words of Christ. He is the originator of the faith and he will complete it. Apostle Paul said that the Church was God’s farmland and building, by preaching the gospel of Christ he had laid the foundation of it, somebody else builds further on it, with jewels, gold, silver, wood and gras, but must look after how he does it, the fire will test it. Then it is important to build with something that does not burn. So it is important to cooperate with God, so that he makes something that lasts for ever, by saving people (1.Corint.3). This is also about our personal lives, it is important for us to cooperate with God in building our own lives, for only he can create something that lasts for ever. Everyone needs to learn something else in addition to the Bible and it is important for us that it is valuable and that it lasts. We become specialized in different subjects and it is clear that the priest can not keep that sovereign position over our thinking. The priest gets in such a position only by keeping to his subject, preaching what is written in the Bible. But other people can also read it and preach it, in that way also the priest gets less sovereign. But the point in the teaching is not that the priest is sovereign, but that Christ is. By believing that God rose Christ from the dead we become righteous for God and by acknowledging that he is Lord, we get saved. 

Jesus chose Paul as apostle instead of Judas, to preach his gospel and that is most fundamental. How could he? Because Christ chose him to it and enabled him to it, by baptizing him with the Holy Spirit (John.1,33 & 1.Corint.12,12-14). If somebody tries to take over, without being enabled to it that way, he tries to capture the position of teaching what is most fundamental, but is not able to it.  

Paul said that some preached the gospel primarily to earn money by it, but it still served Christ’s sake. But the he prophesied that there would come “savage wolfs” in among them and men would arise among them that distort the truth.  

Acts.20, 28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.  

29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;  

30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.  

31 Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish everyone with tears.  

32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. 

He also prophesied that someone should be removed so that the Lawless one could take over. It is surely first of all himself who will be removed, then it may be anyone else who preaches the gospel like he did (2.Thess.2,7).  

2.Thess.2, 1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,  

2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.  

3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,  

4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.  

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?  

6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.  

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.  

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.  

9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,  

10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.  

11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,  

12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 

13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.  

14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.  

15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.  

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,  

17 comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word. 

The Lawless one is like the foolish shepherd of the flock to be slaughtered by the sheep traders, and who sold Jesus for 30 silver coins, Zechariah.11,4-17. See also Daniel.11,21… Revelation.11, (Zechariah.4). 

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